Comments on: What Makes a Good Wine List? Size Doesn’t Matter

By: Joe

Joe — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 03:48:23 +0000

The pricing is critical. If you’re going to put wines on the list that anyone can buy anywhere, don’t start the dining experience with a huge “F you, ignorant customer”.

I have no problem with paying double retail/triple wholesale/whatever. Will even pay a little more if I know they’re storing the wine properly, serving in nice glassware, and have some training for the staff; all that is overhead, and I understand that those expenses need to be marginalized somewhere. I GET it, and I don’t mind paying for it.

However, when I see a bottle that I know costs $4-6 wholesale on the list for $48 (no shit), I doubt the quality of the wines I don’t recognize on said list. If you insist on pulling that malarky, at least have the due diligence to select wines that aren’t really sold retail, so we- the stupid customers- don’t know any better. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss…

By: Restaurant Wine Lists Are Put on Notice | Drink Nectar

Restaurant Wine Lists Are Put on Notice | Drink Nectar — Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:41:24 +0000

[...] a previous article I asked the question, “Does Size Matter?” When evaluating selection, the size of your menu will not be as impressive as how you use your [...]

By: Kathy

Kathy — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:12:58 +0000

In concept, a distributor can get any wine with a COLA (1,600 new or revised/renewed COLAS were approved by TTB in July). In reality, many distributors in the middle of America can’t due to exclusivity (only xx cases and they aren’t going to MO, IA, KY, TN, AL or OK) or won’t bother when the restaurant is small (not enough turnover) or has a difficult buyer or ever changing wine list. It can even be difficult to get a wine from within your own state (no direct shipping).

Wine really is a different species when you leave the coasts and major urban cities.

Many restaurateurs or beverage buyers spend a disproportionate amount of time searching for the right wines (price, taste, varietal, organic/biodynamic/sustainable, region, country, screw top, cork, table visuals, mix within the overall list, food and so on) to supplement the distributor(s) portfolios. The object: to create a unique list that targets their guests and food/restaurant concept – exactly what many of the posters want. And, they need wine that doesn’t appear on lists of their top 10 competitors.

They scour reviews, go to tastings, select, only to find the new wines aren’t obtainable (including exclusive to xx distributor but distributor is not in “my” state etc). So the 15-to-20 point checklist for each wine starts again.

Were distributors more collaborative with the buyer (and some are) the result would be better wine and better ROI. But that takes time and when working on a commission (and maybe nothing more), more time means less money for the sales rep no matter how you slice it. White Zin is an easy sell; a German Riesling or Languedoc rosé at same price point much less so. That may not be good but it’s reality.

It would be nice to hear from distributors or sales reps on how they see it from their side of the table.

By: Cortney Casey

Cortney Casey — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:24:10 +0000

Right on the money on all of this, Josh. I can’t stand when Sutter Home is on a wine list, especially when there are nearly 100 wineries in Michigan that produce far better. (And said Sutter Home is selling by the glass for more than it costs to buy an entire bottle down the street at the corner grocery store.)

And there’s definitely a balance between too much and too little on a wine list. It’s more appealing to see a smaller list that appears to have been carefully, purposefully selected to complement the menu than a random, overwhelming mishmash for sake of show.

By: Kenton R. P. Fabrick

Kenton R. P. Fabrick — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:31:18 +0000

Josh,
As always, thanks for initiating thoughtful discussion around the fascinating world of wine.
The best wine list I’ve seen is from Carneros restaurant at the Lodge at Sonoma Resort & Spa. Obviously it was Sonoma driven, but not so much a list as an encyclopedia. Each region/AVA was started off with a map and a description of characteristics, varietals and vineyards. The depth was amazing. I was introduced to Chandon’s Pinot Meunier; what a great wine from a sparkling dominate house!
And most importantly, the staff could back-up the list. They had suggestions for all types of palates and they new the nuances of specialty and single vineyard bottlings someone from Washington would rarely know about.
If Washington is going to move forward in the wine world, spreading information is the key. Every way we can tell the world about our superb wine offerings (Not so much the what as the WHY!) including informative wine lists and staf knowledge, the better.

Thanks again,

Kenton

By: Bartholamew

Bartholamew — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:11:37 +0000

Good common sense points well stated; size. look, price and information should all be correct and appropriate.
I would think that would be self evident in all of life’s endeavors.

My puzzlement is what is up with the bashing of wines that find themselves sold from supermarket shelves. I find that most wineries covet a facing in that channel and are likely to be stronger financially and hence more consistent of product. Sutter Home and Beringer are two of the most successful wine companies in the world and both have very restaurant worthy wines in their portfolios. I recall Beringer receiving two number one spots on the Spectator top 100 list last decade. Every day I hear the mindless mantra of not wanting any supermarket wines on my list. (except KJ) Has anyone looked at the selection of wine in a good supermarket lately. How about a Wholefoods. Some of the best everyday drinking wines I have found lived on the bottom shelf. And the supermarkets DNA is to offer products that, gadzukes, the people with the money want to buy. In the restaurant business we call them customers. The ones who put money in so we can take it out. I think they rule. Even Scott at his intelligently run country club wine program realizes that some people like the taste of white zin and are entitled to it. What I hear when a buyer doesn’t want wines that are available in the chains is that they don’t want their customers to know the true value of the beverage they are hanging their entire profit burden on. That is lazy. Pretty soon they won’t want wines that can be found on a Blackberry. Good luck with that. Kudos to those who are offering good wine at an attractive price. Bart